Looking for succesful NAV 200+ installations

Hi All,

Recently I had a customer meeting where MS told the customer that 100 users are max for this installation, and that they should opt for Ax instead - MS recommendations.

 

Over the years I have been involved in a number of 200+ user Nav/Navision installations, and would like to hear from you out there in the Global Navision Village if you have experiences and/or references that will help me substantiate my claim that this customer can run 130 users on SQL hasslefree (yeah - hw and sw is tuned accordingly).

 

Please help me in this "crusade" for NAV 200+ users

 

/Jens

  • Yeah, we are running 139 users. SQL2000 moving to SQL2005 (today in fact) on a 30gb database. Running 3.7 database with 4.03 executables incl SQL reports (replication) and 3x NAS's etc.

    Most of the time its fine, with the odd performance issue. As long as db maintenance is done properly and knowledge of SQL and Navision performance issues during development you can avoid a badly performing system.

  • In reply to Nicholas Bartie:

    Nicholas Bartie:

    Yeah, we are running 139 users. SQL2000 moving to SQL2005 (today in fact) on a 30gb database. Running 3.7 database with 4.03 executables incl SQL reports (replication) and 3x NAS's etc.

    Most of the time its fine, with the odd performance issue. As long as db maintenance is done properly and knowledge of SQL and Navision performance issues during development you can avoid a badly performing system.

     

    139 users on 30 GB - seems a bit out of proportion -whats the main activity of most users in the system?

     

  • In reply to Nikolas:

    Out of proportion? Size does not include Log, also it is optimized so cut off a few gig on that alone. 2 Year old database, 200k contacts, warehouse, +-300k invoices etc etc, seems healthy to me?
  • Well Jens. Of cause you do know the answer already. And I'm sorry for adding my so late. I know you needed it for a specific case. But I think this question is very good.

    With my now 16 years of experience with Navision - now Dynamics NAV (must be almost the same as you?) - I have seen many many installations. Back with Navision 3.51 (the character based DOS-OS/2 version) I remember working with a very large installation. Not the fact that we had 50+ users, but they were almost all in Sales. It took quite some optimization before this worked without locks every minute.

    With the introduction of Navision Financials it became much better. Now 50 users was no problem at all. And personally I have worked with installations of NAV version 3.60 and 3.70 with up to 500 users in the same databases. Although my experiences with this told me that a lot of optimizations should be done to make this perform satisfactoring. My estimates from back then was that we should use up to 25% of our development costs on optimizations only (a lot of these optimizations performed by SQL Performance Guru Hynek Mulhbacher).

    With the latest release of Dynamics NAV (version 5.0), a lot of Hyneks suggestions to Microsoft have now been build into the application, and such much of this work should not need to be done. But still as I see it now, then the major problem in performance and Dynamics NAV is that most Dynamics NAV developers don't know how to program. Of cause this is not quite true, but when it comes to program with the eye for SQL performance then it's true very long down the road. Especially when it comes to use of keys and the new functions introduced with NAV version 4.0 (FINDFIRST, FINDSET, FINDLAST ect).

    But to come back to your real question, then I would not be affraid of any Dynamics NAV installation with under 200 users. But I still would consider it once again, if I had a company with a total number of users over 500. Especially if these where all in the same legal company in Dynamics NAV. If they where divided into i.e. 10 companies of each 50 users, then again I would not be affraid for this.

    Basically it seams to me that Microsoft have done the same to you as they did to me in my previous company. They have sent out one of their incompetent "product specialists", who doesn't really know the product, but only knows the marketing material!!! In my case they where almost destroying many months of work with our internal Supply Chain group, by claiming that a rather simple solution could not be done in Dynamics NAV, but we should use Dynamics AX instead! It turned out that these "specialists" was just started with NAV and had several years of AX background!

  • http://thenavisionpeople.com/news/gamestop2.html

    Take a look at this article...this is kind of the predecessor to an announcement that NAV was chosen for the GameStop retail store.  Globally this solution will serve over 3,500 concurrent users so don't tell me that NAV can't scale.  Obviously, this in't the typical scaled solution for NAV, but it does show what can be done when the right team is put in place.

     This the largest NAV ever done...

  • In reply to Muzzy Dawg:

    Muzzy Dawg

    http://thenavisionpeople.com/news/gamestop2.html

    Take a look at this article...this is kind of the predecessor to an announcement that NAV was chosen for the GameStop retail store.  Globally this solution will serve over 3,500 concurrent users so don't tell me that NAV can't scale.  Obviously, this in't the typical scaled solution for NAV, but it does show what can be done when the right team is put in place.

     This the largest NAV ever done...

    Interesting article. But isn't this solution based on the same as LS Retail? Then the basic is that everything is based on local servers, which might or might not be syncronized to a central server. And when I used to work with the retail solutions then we always had each POS as a local database with syncronization to the backoffice server. This way we prevented against breakdown in the network (not acceptable at all for POS solutions), and the normal performance issues was not a problem.

    But even though this is not the biggest solution - then it's both going to be a big and very interesting solution.

  • In reply to Erik P. Ernst:

    I just did some consulting work for a site with a typical daily log-on of about 400 users.  As Erik suggested, a key to this site working very smoothly (which it does) is the fact those users were spread over a number of companies.  I believe this particular site could handle 1,000 users or more, provided the users per company ratio remained about as it is now.  My opinion is that NAV can handle large installations if the application and the environment is well suited to the product's strengths.

  • In reply to David Studebaker:

    Perhaps it makes sense to refer to "Concurrent Users" by company then by database and then "Total Users" by installation

  • In reply to Nicholas Bartie:

    Nicholas Bartie

    Perhaps it makes sense to refer to "Concurrent Users" by company then by database and then "Total Users" by installation

     

     

    Absolutely.

     This is where these Microsoft "Sales Types" mess up. They just hear a couple of numbers and respond. Its so important to know the whole story and understand what the particular client thinks of when they say "No Of Users".

     

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