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Sales of Navision Attain Licenses

We are a small company in Germany and did buy 12 Navision Attain Licenses and more tables and moduls along end of 2001. Value: 34.000,- €.
After the project going on for nearly one year and we were still not able to use our software due to various problems we were inquiring Navision in Hamburg for a possibility to return the licenses we bought, offering an up to 50% lowered price to cover their costs and margin - just to save at least part of the money we invested. We did not receive a reply to 3 inquiries in that matter, describing the situation in detail, only our solution center answered that Navision won´t help. Disappointed about this awkward after sales support and handling of a problem, we now -after nearly 2 years- tried to sell the licenses at ebay. This is 2 emails we received within 1 day:

Der Handel mit derartigen Lizenzen ist illegal. Bitte freiwillig entfernen
oder wir schalten die Stastsanwaltschaft und Ebay ein.
--------------------


Frage von: jbaier123
Artikelbezeichnung: Navision Attain 3.01 inkl. 13 User Lizensen
Verkaeufer: sylvester1954
Angebotsbeginn: 21.07.03 14:43:03 MESZ
Angebotsende: 28.07.03 14:43:03 MESZ
Preis: Beginnt bei EUR 25.900,00
Um sich den Artikel anzuschauen, klicken Sie bitte auf den folgenden Link
(Sollte der Link nicht funktionieren, kopieren Sie ihn bitte in Ihren
Browser):http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3619140076


2nd email:

Bitte erkundigen Sie sich gern. Die Lizenz gehört nicht Ihnen, Sie haben das
Nutzungsrecht und das kann nicht übertragen werden. Ausserdem müssen Sie
nachweisen können, dass Sie im Besitz des Nuntzungsrechtes sind. Wir können
gern Ihnen die Lizenz im Ebay erstiegern und anschließend gegen Sie klagen,
wenn Sie das möchten. Ausserdem werden wir sollte jemand anderes diese
Lizenz erwerben sie nicht freischalten und die Rechte übertragen.

Interessant für uns zu wissen wäre, warum Sie überhaupt das Angebot machen



Mit freundlichem Gruß

Jürgen Baier
Director MBS Germany

Microsoft Business Solutions Deutschland
PC&C Vertriebs GmbH

Notkestraße 9-11, 22607 Hamburg
http://www.navision.de
Direct: +49 40 899 677 131
Fax: +49 40 899 677 5131
Mobil: +49 173 209 33 36
jbaier@microsoft.com


Has anyone experienced similar behaviour towards customers from Navision? For those who speak no english: the short summary of both mails is the thread to go to court and sue us for offering the licenses we have in ebay, or the possibility that Navision will buy the licenses (that´s what we are asking for!!) and afterwards sue us because of offering them "if we like that". Both emails are full of spelling mistakes and contain no addresses.

We are really disappointed, not about the product that did not fit our needs and our budget in the end, but the way Navision is handling the problem in such an unprofessional and ungenerous way.
  • Hi Ralf!

    A few legal things ...
    First: Have you ever read the license conditions in your contract? The Re-Sale of it should be explicit excluded, so JB is right. Second: Are you selling stuff in eBay as a company or private person? If second, is the license your private property or your company's? If second, it's illegal.

    I think, from a "legal" point of view JB is right.

    But, the behavior of your MBS Partner is really strange, they could manage this - if they want! PC&C could do this also, but I learned that it is better to get in contact with them by phone, instead of emailing. (BTW: I'm still waiting for a call-back, too Wink).

    So, I recommend to call JB or a key account manager. If they do not cooperate properly, give COMPUTERWOCHE a call, they will take care about them Big Smile [}:)]

    Kind regards,
    Jörg
  • At the moment you bought your license, you signed a IPLA, at least, here in the netherlands you have to (wihtout doing this the NSC can't order the license here). In this IPLA (International Program License Agreement) there is a clear statement about selling licenses. It is forbidden at all times, nobody but you can use this license.

    Maybe an odd suggestion: try finding an NSC who can support yo uwell, Navision isn't that bad... Stick out tongue
  • You can not sell your license and better not to try. This is illegal.

    But you can sell whole company who owns Navision License. New company who will buy it will become legal owner of the license and can transfer license on the new name. This happens regularly.

    I think you can split your company and move only Navision License as asset in the new company. Then sell this company. Please, consult with your lower before doing something like this.


  • Well, I have heard of several cases, where a NSC/MCBSP has bought back a license and then re-registered this to "new" customer. But surely it requires a bit of "work" and a good connection to your local NTR.

    Greetings from Poland!
  • Jacob,
    I've also heard of it, but it's still not legal! The only legally way you can transfer a license to another company is if you sell you whole company. Then you can transfer the license to the new name.
  • Just a curious question... How much was it going for on eBay?
  • we removed the offer from ebay before the first bit, due to the massive pressure and threads we received from Navision. See first post in this topic.
    Now 3 weeks later we have still not heard anything else than the thread of bringing us to court, buying the licenses and after sueing us therefore, and giving no support to a potential buyer (well, that´s what we receive anyway...). All this written in sentences with no adress and lots of spelling mistakes, all written by the head of Navision Germany, a Mr. Baier. What a great care for a customer searching for a solution!
  • Steven, selling back a license to MBS in the Netherlands is absolutely never done! Hearing these stories about you being able to sell it back seems to indicate that MBS does not have a consistent strategy fir this?
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