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Navision Subsidiary Granule

I have a question regarding the Navison (Attain) Subsidiary Granule.

The description of this granule say:
quote:
This granule grants you the right to provide your subsidiaries with electronic access to your solution. The grant of access only includes subsidiaries of which your ownership exceeds 50%.
If you want to grant three subsidiaries access, you will need three Subsidiary granules. This feature is often selected if the customer has several subsidiaries and accepts the condition of having one installation, one database and one license. All the functionality and the total sum of users required for all entities must be configured to this license.
This feature does not grant access for legal entities or subsidiaries of which your ownership is less than 50%.


But when I talk to Microsoft then they say that this is only for subsidiaries within the same country as the main license name. Has anyone looked closer into this?
We have 100% owned subsidiaries in over 10 countries and are not keen on having to buy 10 seperate licenses.
  • We had the same question. The reply was (and is also stated in the explanation) "... and accepts the condition of having one installation, one database ...". But, what's the difference with having multiple companies???
    To my opinion, the correct answer to this feature must come from Denmark, because the NTR's can't explain exactly what it is meant for.

  • I'm also interested to hear what MBS Denmark has got to say about that.

    We're a company with a head office in France with a dozen of
    (100% owned) subsidiaries.

    They all use Navision and each country had to purchase
    a licence from their local NTR ...
  • Hi Erik,

    I originally aproached Navision when this first came out with the 3.00 version of Attain (well not attain, ut what ever it was called during its metamorpisis back to Navision. (Navision SOlutions was it?)

    Anyway, the definition translates something like this.

    Scenario 1/
    Assume you have companies in 4 countries, and they are all owned by one corporation, (at least 50%). Then say that in each country there are 10 offices, that are a part of the main company, but in fact are seperate legal entities.


    Now say you build one big Navision server in each country, with 3 seperate database, and each of the subsidiaries link in via Citrix. What is the licence issue:

    First each database must have its own full license. So you need to buy three licenses, one in each country. The country with 2 companies will run off the same server, so you only need one license in that country. In total you have another 40 remote sites connecting into Navision, and are using a seperate COMPANY with in that Database, so you need to purchase a total of 40 subsidiary licenses. AND you must also buy the actuall companies, i.e. the Unlimited companies granule.

    Scenario 2
    You are a 2.60 customer, you have 1 Server supporting your company, your company has 100 affiliates, and all accounting is done centrally on the Main server. This Navision database has 102 companies, 1= Head Office, 1=Consolidation company, 100= Subsidiaries (all owned 100% or more). The subsidiaries connect via Citrix, you have One main license, and unlimited companies.

    Scenario 2a Now you upgrade to 3.60. You are required to purchase an additional 100 Subsidiary licenses to be permitted to run those subsidiaries ont he same server.

    Scenario 2b You upgrade to 3.60, but your company does not own 50% of each of the subsidiaries, you must buy 100 new navision licenses, since you are not permissted to run non subsidiaries on your existing license.

    It is all very clear, but a/ unenforceable except through the honor system, and b/ very hard to sell.

    Personally, I think it si right that Navision/Microsoft should obtain revenue from companies using NAvision in this way, it is just the question of how much, how to enforce, and how to be fair.

    I think some re-wording is required here by MS. I think this was a case of something that sounded good at the time.
  • Erik, Sorry I didn't actually answer your question [xx(]

    The subsidiary granule is not designed to replace the old multi site international licensing pricing. It really is designed to address Citrix type implementations where Navision were missing out on revenue.

    As to multi country licenses, if these are seperate databases, then you need seperate licenses. If all sites are connecting via Citrix ot one server, then you should be able to use the Subsidiary granule.

    It is clear that the subsidiary granule is valid ONLY for one particular Navision server/Database....now to get the discussion heated up, how do we differentiate Server/Database relation ship in Navision vs SQL.
  • PS: The good news,

    I just checked and it apears that in 3.60 Navision have dropped the price of this granule from the original $14,000 to $2,000 this makes a BIG difference. (obviously spending $1,400,000) for 100 remote connections was a bit heavy. Especially since these are not concurent subsidiaries, but total subsidiaries. $2,000 each is not too bad actually. And please read my above posting on the basis of my thinking the price was still $14,000.
  • quote:
    now to get the discussion heated up, how do we differentiate Server/Database relation ship in Navision vs SQL.


    I don't see this as any problem since we allways talk about one database for a license, not one server. You can also infact have several databases in one server when using C/SIDE (but it's a bit tricky).

    Our NTR has told us that You can use a license for ONE live database and for databases for test and education of the previous mentioned live database. This should apply to SQL also. Two live databases serving different companies (even if one is a subsidiary of the other) requires two licenses.

    /Lars
  • The difference is that in C/Side, 1 database = 1 set of Navision Objects, in SQL, one server can have multiple databases, each with its own set of code.

    Subtle difference, but different.
  • I've checked and rechecked and rechecked again the International Program License Agreement (IPLA) for Navision products again and again and I cannot find anything about subsidiaries and their access from one country only. Section 1.1.2 says:
    quote:
    The Licensee is granted the right to use the Program for the following users: 1) All Internal Users, including Users of the Subsidiaries, and 2)...
    Nothing about their country!

    We asked Microsoft Denmark about our installation with approx. 15 subsidiaries, plus 5 additional companies (same legal entity), in 10 countries. We run it off one SQL Server but with diffent databases for each subsidiary/company based on the same W1 database. They said that we needed 10 licenses - one for each country. Not an answer I liked.

    Would this change if we ran it of one database instaed of diffent databases per company?
  • My interpretaion, is that you are paying per database, since you have 10 countries and 10 databases, you are paying for 10 licences.

    If you run off one database, then you would logicaly need to have only one license (since you only have one Database) one subsidiary for each site running off that server (in this case 15). Then you would also need 10 language/country granules.
  • Actually we have 20 databases in 10 countries in one server - so installationvise it's all in one country!!!! (or is it?)
  • Their reply implies that you therefore need 10 different SQL Servers (each with one database) since the license has for 3 years been per-server only.

    I release that this is no longer the case from 3.60, but that does not align with their answer and the per-database license has a different purpose, as well as a new granule.
  • On a sidenote...during my stint with a Navision NTR...this question was probably one of the most common ones asked and was always followed up with a long pause and sigh...

    Navision AS probably should never have opened up the can of worms with this granule.
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