Great! Thanks for the explination.
One thing I would request from you is that when the new client is released, pleasure ensure that Navision can still be used only with a keyboard. This helps productivity amongst end users TREMENDOUSLY!
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Yes if this would not be possible then you would degrade the product a lot!
Most users who are using NAV a bit more than 15-30 minutes per day can basically all save a lot of time by learning to use the keyboard instead of just the mouse.
Best regards,Erik P. Ernst - webmaster at dynamicsuser.net
Thanks for the feedback.
I am well aware that using the keyboard is a great timesaver (and needed for accessibility) - and we are doing all we can to support and extend the shortcuts that can be used. Some shortcuts have been changed though - mainly to align with other Microsoft products.
Short cuts are fine. What I'm referring to is using the arrow keys to move between fields and objects, using hot keys to enter orders, basically, able to navigate around Navision only using a keyboard.
Hi Alex
Alex Chow: Short cuts are fine. What I'm referring to is using the arrow keys to move between fields and objects, using hot keys to enter orders, basically, able to navigate around Navision only using a keyboard.
I hope that we have covered all the aspects you are referring to in the new client - we have been focusing on making data entry as productive as in the classic client - but if you have a "Top 10" of keyboard time savers, then I would be happy to validate how they work in the new client (and log bugs if they don't).
The introduction section is really not the right forum for this, but it's where the thread has gone, so here's my little rant
Heavy data entry people just don't have the time to click through a lot of little filter forms. They don't read the caption of every field, they go like "F3-enter-first 2 digits of the customer number-enter-enter-enter-"T"-Ctrl/arrow down-etc-etc" without even so much as looking at the screen, and within about 3.287 seconds they have a sales order entered for 5 different items, including assigning serial numbers and taking care of picking lists. The new client MUST be able to keep up with that type of use.
Sometimes we get the impression that the focus is on features that look cool in demos, and we're asking you not to forget the people that use the system the most, which is the people that enter and process data. It is really awesome to fly into a 3D model of a replenishment worksheet, but I don't think many people will actually use it that way. What these people are used to is a sheet with numbers. They don't need a 3D representation, because the numbers make sense to them just the way they are. In fact I was sitting next to a manufacturing planner during Convergence in San Diego during that demo, and he said "that looks really cool, but I don't have the time to use it like that"
I've heard many people say that NAV should have easy data entry above all other cool features. These features are very nice to impress management, and are useful to sell the product, but please don't forget the regular users, the people who enter and process data. Get actual data entry people to use the new client and see if the system can keep up with them and listen to their suggestions. Visit the customer service department of a busy company and see how they use the system. You'll see that they are irritated when they have to use the mouse.
If you REALLY want to impress the regular NAV user, put some heavy data entry scenarios in your demo and show that this is also important to the NAV team. Show them how easy it is to enter and process data, THAT is where the productivity gain is.
Daniel already explained the idea in detail, but the essence is - imagine situation when one, maximum 2 users must enter ~500 Sales Orders with 25-35 lines each, then print them out in 3 copies, and all that must be ready to pack and deliver at 05 AM daily w/o holidays. Real scenario at food (bread & confectionery) factory, delivering relatively small Qty of products to a bazzilion of not-so-big shops and cafes. (Direct delivery is caused by short usability period, some products having only 6 hours of it...)
Potential client tested Navision in pilot project, and rejected it - now they use NAV for financial accounting only, SO and PickLists are prepared outside & only summary data are imported into NAV... They really don't need 16M-coloured 3D interface, they need SPEED of processing, and copying previous SO's doesn't work - demand varies daily both in products and quantities.
Modris Ivans MCP - Dynamics NAV Application If you find yourself in a hole, the best thing to do is stop digging
If you find yourself in a hole, the best thing to do is stop digging
Thank you all for your feedback. I will take a look at our UX research results and see if we have done adequate testing of input speed (I think we have, but better safe than sorry). If not, then discussions like this is good "ammo" for that kind of discussions (but having been at site visits at Ax users, I am aware of the importance of processing speed).
Thanks!
I totally agree with these opinions. I consider one of my tasks getting people used to working with the keyboard instead of a mouse. I am using the keyboard more and more lately, and when you get used to it, it's very annoying to run into new versions of software (i.e. Outlook 2007) were navigating with the keyboard seems to have become not important anymore.
So, yes, it is a MUST for future releases of NAV to have keyboard navigation available through the entire application!
Me to. Whenever I have been training users in Navision I have always told them to put the mouse away for the whole content of my training. I have normally not done it on the first session, as it takes a bit more time for them to learn navigate the system, but when they understand the basic structure, then putting away the mouse helps them a lot later.
Michiel Hageman: ... So, yes, it is a MUST for future releases of NAV to have keyboard navigation available through the entire application!
...
Agree! And to all the others.
A speed-test should be done by some of the end-users, not by us developers - and definitely not by the people in Vedbæk (no offence ).
I guess it will take some time/versions before the heavy data entry users switch over to the new roled based client. It's a good thing that the Win32 client will hang around at least in 6.0 (and I bet it will for some time after that release also).
For existing customers I think 6.0 will be a hit using the classic client and the service tier for integration with other systems and the webpart for MOSS as a replacement for Employee Portal. Over time you can then move users over to the new client, but I don't think it should be done as a big bang with all users at once. The new UX (isn't that a nice new little acrynom..) is a really big change for the users. That is a thing we must respect and understand. And that's probably the reason why MS keeps the Win32 client for a while (which i think is a smart move).
Over time the new client must of course be functional even for heavy users. One day MS want's to drop C/SIDE and by then the new client must be fully functional. But will it be ready for the heavy users in release 6.0? I don't think so.
/Lars
It's been a long time since anyone has discussed NAV 2009 on this forum and I am guessing the partner technical preview release and the accompanying NDA has kept people quiet.
I am interested to see what came of this discussion with respect to keyboard usage. I definitely think that some of the key features of NAV as it stands are the ability to quickly bring up Field Filters, Table Filters and Flow Filters and also the ability to do a quick "find as you type" search on any non editable field, or even do a Ctrl+F find to find a record.
Does anyone know if these features are likely to remain a part of the product in the form of the RoleTailored client or are we really not allowed to discuss it?
Woof
Co-author of Implementing Microsoft Dynamics NAV 2009 (PACKT Publishing Ltd.)